The George Saunders 10th anniversary interview

Saunders Author Photo Credit Chloe Aftel.jpgIf I were to draw you a chart with "talented" on one axis and "nice" on the other, today's re-interviewee would be at the top right corner (or whatever would indicate the highest percentage of both talent and niceness. I don't know; I am not a math genius.) He was already a beloved author and satirist when I interviewed him ten years ago; since then he received a MacArthur Fellowship, the the PEN/Malamud Award, and most recently published the New York Times bestselling book of short stories Tenth of December, which is currently on my bedside table. Also, he delivered a really great commencement address earlier this year that is worth a read.

In our last interview you talked about how you feel the world needs satire more than ever before. Satire has taken on a few new different forms since we last talked and the Internet developed new ways of dissemination opinion and humor (and b.s.) Who are some of your some of your favorite satirists (or sources of satire) today?
It was interesting to back and read that interview from ten years ago. I can feel the Iraq war very present underneath it. I think in those ten years I kind of shifted away from satire, some. I'm not writing much humor or non-fiction these days - am just trying to concentrate on fiction. And I never have really thought of my fiction as satirical, really. Comic, but not necessarily satirical. I got branded with that tag early and kind of went with it, but when writing fiction I'm never thinking "I need to SATIRIZE this!"

So I'm maybe a little out of the loop on the satire front. Somebody, writing a review of one of my books, said something to the effect that I wrote better out of love than anger - I liked that - it rang true and has stuck with me. So I think I'm still writing funny, but am feeling like my best work is coming from a less angry/edgy place, maybe.

In our last chat you both said that you're not very enamored with technology, but at the same time you enjoy vernacular, so I want to know what your attitude is towards Twitter and other forms of microblogging/transmitting, where these two things intersect.
Well, at the risk of sounding like a Luddite, I'm more or less a Luddite. It's not that I'm against anything but when I look at my life and how I arrange my time, these days it's taken up with a handful of really essential things, with not much time to spare. Very little Internet time, although quite a bit (too much) of business-related emailing - but no surfing, no social media. Very little news absorption, actually. I remember something from Walden, I think it was - Thoreau talking about how he existed without newspapers pretty easily, because all you had to do was provide proper nouns for the various scandals and natural disasters and political intrigues. And then beneath that, in my view, there are the eternal or more-stable verities - and I think fiction is concerned with those, ultimately.

Basically, though, I think I'd stand by what I said ten years ago: whatever a culture is doing, it can be seen as a kind of gorgeous display - maybe it's not so necessary to judge it, and better to just enjoy it, as you can, even if it seems goofy. I think this might be especially true for me as a writer - if I am enjoying something, it gets in my head better, and I can use it more profitably later.

We discussed a children's book that you wrote for your kids--what has most changed for them in the last ten years?
They're 25 and 23 now and both out in the world and doing beautifully. So that is just incredibly gratifying. They are wonderful, generous people. The one strange thing for me, at 54 now, is to look back and see just how many distinct phases I've lived through. The hundreds of phases and sub-phases associated with raising our kids - and now here we are, on the others side of that, and life is still happening. Kind of nice, and somehow unexpected - really feeling the blessings of a long(ish) life.

Iboth look forward and dread seeing what my own son will be like in ten years, so please reassure me--as a parent, what have been the biggest pleasures in observing your children grow that significantly?
Just being there to see it, you know? And also, seeing how naturally they became completely cool people - loving and funny, a total pleasure to be around - inspiring in so many ways. It was so nice to find out that these precious relationships keep going and expanding and adapting - I think I had it in my mind that the whole wonderful thing would end, or change in some profound way when they left home - which would have been weird, and sad. And it was not the case. The relationships changed, of course (as relationships must if they're going to continue to be relevant and vital), but that sense of deep mutual connection and affection not only continued, but is increasing, I think. And pride - such pride in having known this person as a tiny kid and now she is out there in the world, genuinely making it better, in her own distinctive flavor. I can see now how old people can sometimes be so happy and grateful. I'm shooting for that, as opposed to grouchy old fart model.

You took the summer off from Facebook to go on a "self-imposed writing retreat." How successful was it? What was your average day like during that time?
It went pretty well. Well enough, anyway, that I'm staying off Facebook for the foreseeable future. We took a few trips but when we were home, it was all writing, all the time: just get up, walk the dogs, disappear into the writing room, and stay there, more or less, until 5, have dinner, go back out afterwards. That wasn't every day, by any stretch - but that was the goal. And why not? That's kind of where I am right now - feeling deeply curious about where my fiction writing might go and trying to do it justice and give it the time it needs.

What advice would you give to a new recipient of a MacArthur grant about how to process the information, how to think of/use the money, and/or talk about it when people bring it up? (Assuming of course that somebody asks and wants your input--and who wouldn't, anyway.)
Jeez, I don't know. The beauty of that fellowship is that they totally leave it up to the recipient - they trust you to figure out what will most help your work. And the ethos there is all about directing resources toward people whose prior production indicates strong motivation - so those types of people, I think, tend to know exactly what will help them the most (i.e., wouldn't need any advice from me).

It was an incredibly nice time, when we first found out about that - so I guess one piece of advice would be to just enjoy it. I found that so much of the benefit was sort of psychological - it was funny, and maybe a little embarrassing, how much the recognition opened me up - helped me have a little more daring and confidence. As far as talking about it - I found it helped to have one good deflecting joke. "Yes, I woke up the morning after and found I could program the VCR!" Well, ok - so not necessarily a GOOD joke, but...

I asked you this ten years ago and I want to know again: What's the last thing that's made you laugh out loud?
The opening scene of Walk Hard, when Dewey Cox chops his brother in half. My wife and I almost mutually suffocated.

Northwestern is playing the 'Cuse tomorrow night. Score prediction?
Uh, that would depend on what sport it is.

Eh, it doesn't really matter. How does it feel to be the second person officially (re)-interviewed for Zulkey.com?
A lot better than it did to be the 72nd person interviewed for the first time.