The Emily Gordon interview

IMG_0717.jpgThere was a time a few years ago when my husband and I used to roll with some comedian friends of ours, both socially and professionally (as he shot a bunch of shorts with them.) They have all since moved away and begun amazing careers in L.A. and New York which is awesome and strangely bittersweet at times (we knew them when!) One of them was Kumail Nanjiani, whose girlfriend-now-wife, today's interviewee, I especially enjoyed talking to. Like me, while not actually doing standup per se, she was connected to the comedy world, so it was nice to be able to talk "around" that topic and get it without actually discussing sets and gigs and whatnot. And also she's smart and empathetic (she was a licensed therapist) and funny and nice. Now Emily and Kumail live in L.A. where both their careers have taken off. Emily writes all over the place, including for places like The Rookie and xoJane, produces and appears on hit podcasts like The Indoor Kids and comedy shows like The Meltdown (which has been picked up by Comedy Central.) You can learn much more about her here online or follow her here on Twitter.

What's the best and worst part with being married to someone in the same line(ish) of work as you?
Best: We get to work together sometimes, we know each other's work enough to bounce ideas off of each other, and we understand each other's stressors. Worst: Sometimes people expect us to be working together at all times and it can be weird to assert that no, this one is just me. My husband is objectively much more successful than I am (he's been in the game way longer than me and is just awesome, I have no qualms about it), so it can be weird when I put a live show together, only to have people congratulate him on it. But those moments are few and far between.

Generalizing wildly for a moment, if you had a friend who was about to marry an actor/comedian, what advice would you give him/her on how to handle riding along with the particular ego ups and downs that come with that line of work?
Oh man, I get asked this question a lot. I think the most important thing is to think of each of your careers as things that are separate from who you are as people. I have often said that I think of Kumail's career as a standup as a wonderful dog we have that sometimes shits on the floor, but mostly does awesome tricks. You need to sit down and have the discussion where you assert that a) you each think the other person is incredibly talented and worthy and wonderful, but that b) that may have nothing to do with your actual success or financial success, and c) sometimes you will have to do things for work that aren't conducive to having uncomplicated lives. That way when you're trying to figure out how to pay rent, it's not a discussion of whether or not he's a good comedian, but a discussion of how you're going to make enough paper to sustain your lifestyle. That's it. When he gets asked to open for a comedian and it's an amazing opportunity that wrecks your plans for the next few months, you evaluate it based on what's best for everyone rather than taking a job opportunity as a personal attack. When you take on a freelance job that takes up a ton of your time for a few weeks, he doesn't feel abandoned. Your careers, tenuous as they can feel sometimes, shouldn't make your relationship feel tenuous. It always has to be the two of you against the world, not the two of you against each other. And this is important: make specific rules of how the busier person (whoever that is at the time) will continue to contribute to your lives together, whether it's doing the dishes or scooping the cat litter. These little rituals help keep you connected, and the busier person connected to your home together. And it keeps everyone grounded.

As someone who occasionally appears on podcasts, help me out: what are a few do's and don'ts on how to be a good guest?
Don't have your own agenda. When I appear on a podcast, I figure out if it's a funny silly podcast, a specific discussion of a topic, or something soul-searchy. If it's a funny podcast, don't come at it with stories about your cat's slow death. Don't interrupt too much but do try and have some interesting random stories on hand to insert into conversations- I like to talk about rat kings on podcasts. (Google rat kings if you haven't already.) Always let the host lead you, but don't always wait to be asked a question to speak. I have better conversations on podcasts than I do in my day to day life. That's kinda sad, huh?

Who are some of your female heroes who you keep as role models in terms of your career?
I tend to look up to Carrie Brownstein, Ophira Eisenberg, Jessi Klein, Amy Schumer, Amy Poehler, Riki Lindhome and Kate Micucci of Garfunkel and Oates, and Aisha Tyler- women who write, perform in creative ways other than standup (and also standup), and are complete badasses. I also love Tavi Gevinson, but I'm a little biased there since I write for her website. I tend to look up to women who seem like they'd be fun to go to a haunted house or get drunk with. Is it cheesy to say you?

You know, I'm OK with cheesy! I read in another interview with you that you said that having therapist skills can be great for producing: "Part of what I do is try to figure what is going on and then see what I can do to fix it." What can you do in a case like that?
A big part of producing a live show is being able to step back and see what it looks like from all angles- how is the crowd participating? How are the acts participating? How is the show being seen in the media or online? Part of my job as a therapist was learning how to evaluate the relationships between people- evaluating group dynamics- rather than the people themselves, and I bring that to producing. When you look at the show itself as its own entity, and the relationship between the audience and the act as its own entity, it makes it easier to objectively figure out what's going gangbusters and what needs improving. And then it's all firm words with smiling eyes.

Since moving to New York and L.A., what have been some of your most fulfilling experiences in terms of meeting (or working with) people whom you've admired from afar who also turned out to be a good person?
Oh man, so many. I don't even think I've met any comedians who are assholes- everyone is kind, or else they're a bit curt because they're immersed in their work, both of which I respect. I've been a fan of Lance Bangs since I was quite young- I've watched Jackass and his videos and always adored how cool he seemed when he'd be on camera himself, and the fact that he is directing The Meltdown TV show is an absolute dream come true. No one is more badass, gentle, creative, and wonderful than him. Completely fulfilling.

You wrote a piece that I identified with about being part of an Internet community before the Internet was as widely-used as it is now. I want to know, as a therapist, how do you evaluate your relationship with the Internet now? Healthy? Codependent? Resentful? Tell me more, I'm listening.
My relationship with the Internet these days is fairly healthy. I have been thinking about this relationship a lot- what do you owe your Twitter followers, and what do they owe you? What are the boundaries of that relationship, and what are the expectations? I want people to read the things I'm writing online, but that doesn't mean I want to interact with everyone who has an opinion about what I've written. People think that if you write something it means that you are required to carefully consider and respond to everyone's opinion about what you've written, but I believe that's bullshit. You don't have to read what I've written, and I don't have to read your comments or Tweets about it. We both get to choose. My biggest thing now is when I see something online that makes me really really angry and I cannot do anything about it, I stop looking at it. If I can write something in response, or say something on Twitter that's relevant, sure, I'll do that, but if I don't have anything useful to contribute to the conversation and it's still really frustrating me, I will just shut off my computer and go on a walk. I grew up in the country and come from a long line of folk who need to take walks to clear their heads. Remembering that most of the world doesn't give a shit about the Twitter fight about comedians and rape culture is really helpful. When my own head feels too populous, I leave it and immerse myself in something less egocentric. All that being said, I feel quite lucky that the people who find me online tend to be in to the same stuff that I am, so I am more often exposed to awesome things from them than terrible things.

What do you like least and most about L.A.?
Least: the traffic, the fact that it's not a "walking city", and that during pilot season, all anyone talks about is pilot season. Most: the weather, the nature, the fact that it's cheaper than NYC so people have more free time to create for the sake of creating, and holy shit the food is amazing.

I get asked this all the time and I never have a good answer, but maybe you do: you hold down a bunch of gigs and are a prolific writer, so what are your time management techniques?
I set up blocks of time to accomplish things in. I give myself 30 minutes to putz around on the Internet every morning, followed by 30 minutes of email returning, and then I have two hours. I either work on two projects, each for an hour, or one project for the whole time. Then I usually break for lunch, work out, and then squeeze some more work in if I can. I find that three hours is enough to get all I need to get done in a day, writing-wise.

I enjoy the writing you do on body image and whatnot. What's your workout routine right now, and do you have any recommendations in terms of good songs, gear, post-snacks, etc?
I just got a trainer and that is nuts. Usually I just take hour long walks every day, but now I work out with her two days a week and walk the rest. I listen to a lot of RuPaul and Major Lazer when I work out. Oh! An I just learned that coconut water is good post workout because it soothes sore muscles.

How does it feel to be the 360th person interviewed for Zulkey.com?
Full circle? It feels full circle. I think you're the greatest, and I have for many many years.

Girl.