October 25, 2002

Today is the day to wish Stevie Kuenn and Keith Phipps happiness together for the rest of their lives.

Countdown to today's big interview...

6. Irritable Colon now has a website. Listen to songs about me and other writery folks. Watch videos and laugh until people give you strange looks. This is the way of the future.

5. This weekend, be sure to tune into Comedy Central's Premium Blend to catch the standup of Jesse Popp, the hilarious emcee of the Haypenny One-Year Anniversary. If you haven't seen it yet, there's a clip from his set on the Comedy Central website. You can watch it by clicking here and then on the picture of Jesse. Be sure to watch the whole show, this Saturday night at 9pm. Also, be sure to try to figure out who you think he looks like. I have my money on Paul Rudd.

4. Grease. Yes or no? Please tell me.

3. Read 2/3 of what I read at the Haypenny One Year Anniversary on Dezmin. Lists are fun!

2. All right. Thanks to all of you for contributing your questions to me. I pressured you guys, big time, and the payoff from me thus far is minimal. But you might like it, and it's ever-evolving. See those little words over there on the left hand side? Click on "Biography." You might be pleasantly surprised. Or, you might be totally bored. Or, you might be itchy, hot and angry. Anyway, I appreciate you guys sending me your queries, especially those of you from whom I've never heard before.

1. This weekend is a big one for me; for the first time, two of my friends are getting married! (Arguably, it's bigger for them than for me.) It's quite the literary marriage, too. Stevie Kuenn, of Flak Magazine fame, is wedding longtime beau Keith Phipps, of the Onion AV Club. These two are great and I think I'm getting more mature because I'm experiencing this weird thing where somebody else's happiness is making me happy. Weird!

All right. I have interviewed a few good Southerners in my time, but I don't know if you can beat these two lovely ladies I have here. Yeah, that's right, I said two.

Valerie McEwan and Phoebe Kate Foster I met primarily as editors of mine at the books section of Popmatters.com. They're fantasic editors and know how to have fun with books. So much fun, in fact, that they are queens of the literary internet. Frisky and full of insight, is what they are.. Special props to Ms. McEwan, who struggled through tranquilizers and back pain to deliver the goods. Is there more to say? Probably. But it's time to get to askin' the questions. So sit back with a glass of sweet tea and enjoy!

The Phoebe Kate Foster and Valerie McEwan Interview: Over 23 Questions for the Two of 'Em

Val, you are the founder of the Dead Mule. Can you tell us about its origins?
The Dead Mule was the brainchild of Harley Dartt and me. Harley dropped out when we had "artistic" differences. At least that's a polite way to put it. We also had three hurricanes and his house got smacked twice, real hard, once by flood and once by a giant pecan tree, if I recollect correctly and I probably don't. I think it caused him severe emotional damage. I pretty much went off to Holland to the Plougshares Fiction Workshop and came back to a letter from Harley bowing out of the Mule. But he did stick around long enough to help me secure a grant from the North Carolina Arts Council for a literary journal that would highlight writers east of I-95 in North Carolina. Turns out I had artisitic differences with just about everyone and ended up alienating not only Harley but the Pamlico Writer's Group and many of the contributors because I wanted to dothe Mule online. This was 1996.

At this time, in typical southern fashion, I began drinking heavily because of the pressure to conform to the rigid confines of right-wing conservative small town social mores. Seems the word "ass", used in any context, causes decent women to seek absolution during Wednesday night prayer meetings. I found myself compelled to have t-shirts printed with the Dead Mule logo and the words "I kicked ass on the Dead Mule" emblazoned across the back. I wore the shirt incessantly. Eventually I was fired from my teaching position at Pungo Christian Academy in Belhaven (focus on the word Christian) because my ass word usage got out of control and I told a high school history class that "American kicked ass in World War II."

I'm still living in the same town and still have contact with all the folks who were going to help with the literary journal but never did. They talk about me behind my back. When we run into each other at Piggly Wiggly or WalMart, they smile like they're trying to clench a piece of meat in their back teeth and ask how I'm doing. Fuck 'em. Or maybe I should say "kiss my ass." It's a long, convoluted story, the mule origins, and it's not really very interesting.

The name came from a Jake Mills' article in which he, tongue-in-cheek, set out to prove that no good southern fiction is complete without a dead mule. Mills was at the most holy UNC campus in Chapel Hill at the time. Jake was a friend of Harley's and sent him a proof of the article before it came out in print. I think he got mad at Harley because we used the name The Dead Mule, but for the life of me I don't know why. There's a bar in Chapel Hill called The Dead Mule. Oddly enough, Jake retired and moved a couple blocks away from me, right down the street. My mom and I tried to take a journaling class from his wife, Rachel, a few years back but she and I didn't see eye to eye about journaling our inner-most feelings. She's one of those earth-mother types, wears corduroy jumpers and sensible shoes, speaks real softly. When I'm writing on demand with a table full of blue-haired women from the North, I tend to go for the comedic effect and not delve a whole lot into how middle-class and stable my upbringing was. Also, I kept getting distracted because we were having class at Rachel's dining room table and the bathroom door was open, right beside the table, and it had a dripping faucet and the toilet kept flushing by itself. And she served skim milk instead of half & half with the coffee, I have problems with that.

Oh, yeah, the Dead Mule. Anyway... I did manage to publish one print edition of the Mule and since the grant was only for $2,000, it wasn't possible to print another one. I guess I could have asked for more money but I was really beginning to get into HTML and digital photography, so I moved the Mule online and it's been there ever since. Server fees are cheaper than publishing costs. My husband, Rob, taught me how to code, use Photoshop for graphics, and I lined up some folks to help me read submissions and choose what we'd include in the Mule each month.

Phoebe, how did you get involved with the Mule? What are your responsibilities?
Well, I've known Miz Val for awhile. I first met her over a pair of beautiful stone swan planters at a meeting of her wonderful Southern Yard Art Preservation Society. However, my association with the Mule came later, when I submitted a story under some names of mine that she didn't know (Lucy-Clare Bowen) because I didn't want to seem to be taking advantage of our acquaintance. When she accepted it, I revealed my true identity. My, was she surprised that I had so many names! Several stories later, she decided I was hanging around the Mule barn so much that she might as well put me to work as Ass.Ed., a position I am proud to hold. I read submissions to the Mule, and keep up with the voluminous correspondence. A lot of our writers end up becoming friends, and like all Southerners, they love to chat and pass the time of day.

Val, one of the qualifications to submit to the Mule is to explain why one is Southern. What are some of the more off-the-wall explanations you've gotten for that?
We continue to have marvelous explanations, even after all these years and the hundreds of writers we've published. Most of them include the words: Grits, Sweet Tea, Mama, Civil War, and reference to a southern state. I need to reload the old article we had that contained some of the best explanations. I'll try to get it online soon.

My all time favorite answer is:
Why I should be admitted to the Dead Mule School of Southern Literature?
Why do I think I'm Southern?
I don't think it. I know it.

Phoebe, what are ALL your names? What are some of the benefits for having several names?
The Witness Protection Program is so helpful, isn't it?

My full "first name" is Phoebe Katherine Clare. My middle name is Bowen. My married name is White. My mother's maiden name was Foster, which I use for my writing. My confirmation name is Lucy. I picked it for the real profound
reason that my favorite show at the age of 8 was "I Love Lucy." The nun in charge of getting us ready for our confirmation gave me a bookmark with a picture of Saint Lucy on it. She got her eyes gouged out by a violent suitor
whose attentions she spurned because she'd taken a vow of lifelong virginity. Well, I took one look at that poor child with her eyeballs on a platter and decided right then and there that I sure wasn't going to be a virgin and end up like her!

And, oh yeah, I never tell my maiden name…there's folks out there I'm hiding from, remember.

Val, as books editor for Popmatters.com, what are some of the worst books you've had to review?
Chris Mazza's Girl Beside Him (and saying that will not increase my popularity) Some book by Elisa Wald about firefighters. I just can't bring myself to even write reviews of certain books, like the Nicholas Sparks book I just got, the Most Horrid and Offensive recent book Nights in Rodanthe.

Tell people who aren't familiar with Popmatters why you think they should read it.
PKF: 'Cause if you're under 40, you'll know everybody they're writing about. And if you're over 40, you won't know most of the folks they're writing about, but it doesn't matter, because your teenage kids and the people you know who are under 40 will think you're very cool for reading such a trendy publication at your advanced age.

VM: It's hip, it's cool, it's now. It's fab, it's groovy, it's with it. Totally awesome. Far out.

Valerie, you are also the photographer for the Mule. Do you take pictures specifically for different issues, or do you use things you've already taken? What are your favorite things to snap?
I usually have a theme which in no way corresponds to the stories or poems published. It's odd, though, because after taking them, I often am able to match the writing to just the right photo -- but that, I think, is because it's a southern journal and my photos are of the south.

Hands down winner? Abandoned houses and flea markets. I don't like to take pictures of people. I'm too afraid of getting my ass kicked. I'd rather face snakes, briar patches and mosquitos than angry bikers and white trash women. Phoebe's gotten a couple Monday morning emails from me where I told her about my near-asskickings.

Phoebe, as the editor of literary journals over at Popmatters, have you learned any cold, hard truths about such journals that young and idealistic editors should take care to know?
A lot of them don't give a hoot about the story you submit, they just want to read a long page of academic degrees, writing programs attended, and publication credits. These journals shall remain nameless, because I still want to get published by them, of course, no matter how shameful their selection process is.

You guys are the first mothers I've interviewed on Zulkey.com who are not my own. I have recently moved away from my house into a new apartment, and am feeling a bit wistful about it. Any advice on how adult sons and daughters can maintain a healthy (both healthily close, and healthily distant) relationship with their parents? See, I can ask you because if I ask my own mom, that's lame.
PKF: I'm still working on this one myself. My eldest, a boy, moved out last year. We tearfully bid him farewell, then as soon as his car turned the corner, we did the dance of joy and changed all the locks and threw a big party to celebrate. However, if that child persists in coming home every five minutes and eating everything in sight, I'm afraid we might just have to move (to a foreign country) and forget to send him a change-of-address card. Don't anybody tell him all this, now. It might endanger that nice healthily close/healthily distant relationship we're working so hard on having…

VM: I'm probably not a good person to answer that because the only thing that changed when my girls moved into their own places was the location of their beds. Nothing is different... wait... actually, they're probably more honest now than they were when they lived at home. Just do whatever you did with your parents when you lived with them, only go home to your own place afterwards.

Phoebe and I tend to look at writers as our children. Not in a condescending way, but we become very attached to them, I suppose that's why we edit. It's a mothering process. We nurture with words, and commas instead of grits and cheese biscuits. Virtual mothering. You're one of our babies, you know. [Editor's note: Aw, thanks.]

Val, on that note, what is it like to live with your mother when you are one?
Ruth is 85 and has always been with me. Even before my dad died in 1987, mom and I spent most of our time together. It's an odd relationship because it's so constant. We've never fought. I didn't go through that teenage angst hate my parents thing. Ruth is extraordinary, got her degree in Engineering in 1937. She's interesting as hell, I can't imagine not having her around. I boss her around, she bosses me, and we both boss the girls and poor Rob. She has congestive heart failure and we need to be together. She's not southern, though. She's from Cincinnati. We moved to Arkansas in 1962. I am one of those Southern By the Grace of God southerners. My family's all from Ohio originally... well, not originally. That would be Bulgaria. Her ancestors came here to escape being drafted into the Prussian Army. Eighteenth century draft dodgers.

Phoebe, if you were to be so bold as to wear jewelry to bed, which pieces would you wear?
The world is divided up into three distinct types of people: those who don't wear jewelry at all (strange folks, if I do say so), those who do wear jewelry but take it off at the end of the day, and those who wear jewelry 24/7, sick or well, thriving or dying, for better or worse, until the grave doth part us from the beloved contents of our overstuffed armoires. I am, of course, in the latter category. I am never without jewelry on. Last night, I slept with rings and bracelets on both hands, and a very large topaz pendant that dangled most provocatively down my cleavage.

What are your favorite cities in the South, and why?
PKF: New Orleans. Food, history, culture, architecture, people, shopping, ambience (read: decadence), and you can drink cocktails walking down the street. Who can ask for anything more? No other Southern city can compare.

VM: Savannah, Georgia and Aiken, South Carolina. Oh, and Augusta. Savannah just because it's Savannah. If you've been there, you know why. Aiken is beautiful. Augusta is charmed.

Civil War or War of Northern Aggression?
PKF: 11. Sorry, I'm not familiar with that first term you use…

My kin, at different times, have called it The War for Southern Independence (a.k.a. The Second American Revolution), Mr. Lincoln's War, The War to Suppress Yankee Arrogance, and The Yankee Invasion. When inebriated, they call it The Lost Cause and cry into their Jack Daniel's.

VM: The Recent Unpleasantness

Valerie, can you tell me about Web Del Sol, and what you do about it?
Hmmmm. I'm not doing a whole lot right now because I'm editing a book with Genya Ravan, her autobiography. A couple years ago, I wrote the non-profit incorporation documents and filed them in Delaware for Mike Neff and his WebDelSol and I also filled out the IRS determination forms for WebDelSol. I volunteered to do it for him because I think WDS, as a literary portal, performs quite a service for writers and readers. I recruited Phoebe to help with WoW-schools.net, an online literary resource for high school students that's a branch of WebDelSol. We both mentor online. John Bush, in Georgia, is the driving force behind Wow-schools and Neff is amazing in his generosity towards writers and all things literary.

Phoebe, what are some publications, web or print, that are possibly lesser-known but that you think more people should submit to?
Megaera (if they publish your story, they also publish a photo of one of your eyes), Flashquake (if they don't accept you, the five editors send you their comments), Story Bytes (edited by one of the nicest men in the business), Amarillo Bay (a class act), Tattoo Highway (they have cool contests.) And Dead Mule, of course. There aren't many authentic Southern regional journals out there, on the web or in print.

Print: Tampa Review (one of the most beautiful journals I've seen and the only one to my knowledge done in hardcover), Lynx Eye and Zyzzyva (2 California indies), Barbaric Yawp (underground mag from the Adirondacks published by 2 really neat people.)

Val, what are some of the differences, either obvious or subtle, between the two Carolinas?
North Carolina has its charms. I've been here since 1987 and I'm starting to like it. I live smackdab in the illiteracy belt. Sometimes I forget there's more to the state than rednecks, white trash, Baptists, crackheads, unemployment, and incest.

South Carolina, the real state -- not the bastardized versions people visit in Hilton Head, Myrtle Beach and the like -- the true SC is gentle, hospitable, and kind. Except for Strom Thurmond who's a mean old man.

In both states, if you're not "from" here, you're not here. North Carolina suffers from a split-personality disorder, the Triangle vs. Appalachia vs. the Dismal Swamp. I have a problem with basketball, but I can't say that outloud or I'll be driven from the state. And the military-industrial complex in both states is an ever-expanding grotesque reminder that the world is not safe. There's no difference between the states in that respect. Parris Island, Cherry Point... if bombs and men are leaving for battle, they're usually leaving out of here. Phoebe and I both live in towns with the constant sound of military jets and helicopters overhead.

Phoebe, what on earth is the cardigan dance?
It's a mysterious ritual in NC --very ancient, very profound, an initiation rite for young girls, and a fearsome thing to the males of the region, who tremble in horror on the first chilly day of fall (which down here occurs about 3 months later than the rest of the country) as the females don the First Sweater of the Season and go off into the woods together to celebrate. What goes on is, of course, a secret, but I do believe its origin dates back to the ancient Celts, whose descendents eventually populated this part of the South. This year, the Cardigan Dance was performed on October 18. It was wonderful. As always. Makes one feel like a whole new woman.

Val, what is so great about Daniel Woodrell? You seem to like him a lot. If you could mimic anything that he does, what would it be?
Woodrell writes like I know. I grew up in Arkansas and I can identify many of his characters. His writing is referred to as Southern Noir, but to me, it's just the stories of people I heard about or knew growing up. There's a reality to his writing that intrigues me. I don't know that I'd want to mimic him as much as I want my writing to have the same ring of truth to it that his does.

Phoebe, what's been more fun, being a Junior League Matron or being a Jewish Mystic?
Both were fun. As a Junior League matron, I got to go out to brunch a lot and drink Bloody Maries at 11:00 in the morning. The interesting thing about being a Jewish Mystic was that I wasn't Jewish (it's a long story; don't ask.) However, the most fun thing was being a Junior League matron and a Jewish mystic at the same time. Such a mixed metaphor or something.

You are showing representatives from around the country why the South is a culinary mecca. What would you prepare?
PKF: I'd do a buffet of my mama's recipes: gumbo, cantaloupe wrapped in proscuitto (okay, okay, I know that's Italian but she made it all the time anytime), smothered chicken, shrimp Creole, smoked ham, corn pudding, spinach soufflé, spoon bread, tomato aspic, chilled asparagus with a remoulade blanc sauce, garlic cheese grits, wild rice and mushroom casserole, her special pilaf (cold sliced avocadoes, tomatoes, and onions in a garlic vinaigrette dressing served on hot white rice), and strawberry-rhubarb pie for dessert.

VM: I'm on Atkins. I can't talk about food right now. I've had to give up cheese grits and now I put artificial sweetner in my iced tea. I am inhuman. I can't even have biscuits with my redeye gravy. I would just have to take ya'll to King Chicken for hush puppies, slaw, and fried wings or drive out to Martel's Barbeque for a couple of his 2 inch thick pork chops, or a rack of his ribs. Or some Bill Ellis barbeque... the state barbeque championships are being held here this weekend. If you know North Carolina barbeque, you know how miserable I'm going to be because I can't have taters with my pig. And no cobbler.

Which are the best films to get a proper feel for the South, without inaccuracy or stereotype? All right, stereotype is ok.
PKF: In no particular order: A Streetcar Named Desire, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, Eve's Bayou, The Gift, O Brother Where Art Thou, Driving Miss Daisy, Sounder, Nashville, Thelma and Louise, Tender Mercies, To Kill a Mockingbird.

VM: To Kill a Mockingbird. Slingblade. Oh Brother Where Art Thou. Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. What was that Bette Davis movie? Where she's a crazy belle?? With Joan Crawford? That one... Sweet Baby Jane, I think that's the name of it, something like that. [Editor's note: I think it might be What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?, but I might be wrong.]

Val, how did you become the books editor at Popmatters?
John Nettles was the original books editor. He and I had been emailing each other for years because we published one of his short stories in the Dead Mule, way back in 1997, I think. He emailed and asked if I wanted to review books for Popmatters. I did for about six months and when he had to step down after a while, he asked me if I wanted to take over and recommended me to Sarah [Zupko, Editor and Publisher of Popmatters.] The rest is history.

Phoebe, what's the difference between a bad book review, a boring book review and a great book review?
A bad book review focuses attention on the reviewer, not the book. A boring book review is a couple thousand words of plot description. A great book review is like a kaleidoscope. Every paragraph gives you a slightly different, deeper, richer slant on the subject. You learn about the book-and a dozen other fascinating, relevant things as well. The context of a book, culturally, is even more important than what the book "says," I think.

How does it feel to be the first power-woman-Southern-belle-literary-knockout duo interviewed for Zulkey.com?
PKF: Oh wow! Is that what we are? I'm impressed!

By the way, this is a first for me. I've never been interviewed before. It's been fun. Thanks!

VM: Well, darling, we do appreciate your giving us your time. What most of your readers don't know is that Phoebe and I are really the same person. I am a figment of her imagination and she is a figment of mine. Neither one of us truly exists outside of the Internet. Are you really sure you're emailing either one of us? What proof do you have of our existence, other than emails and reviews? Has anyone ever met us? [Editor's note: All I can say is, I don't know nothing 'bout birthing no babies.]