April 23, 2004

Today is the day to sue someone for fun.

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Zulkey.com will be travelling to Toronto on a long weekend, so you will have to make do without me on Monday. Please send in your theological queries to the BYT, and anything else question-wise here.

Today is a rarity on Zulkey.com, only done twice before, where I've interviewed my subject on the phone. And I think that it's the best way to talk to today's subject, maybe the only person I've ever met who actually speaks in capital letters. I adore her and so do her readers. The woman behind the brilliant Ask E. Jean column in Elle, she has, among other things, lived with Hunter S. Thompson for a few weeks while working on his biography and written for Saturday Night Live and countless publications. Oh, and she was also an award-winning cheerleader and beauty queen, so let that be a lesson to all you pretty, popular girls out there: there is hope for you!

The E. Jean Caroll Interview/Conversation

What's the most common question you receive in your advice column?
How to find a man, how to get a man, how to keep a man, how to get rid of a man. It's always about love.

Are there any questions you wish you got more of?
Because it's always about love, that could be love of career and it's self-love, self-hate…I would like to have it less about men because I think women are a little too man-centered. We all have that man-centered dingbat brainwave which just gets in the way of sensible living. I would like to have more questions about art and politics, literature, career, friendship.

You've written Mr. Right, Mr. Right Now! Are you familiar with many other advice books for women? Do you like any of them?
I don't read 'em. I don't like 'em. I don't like the whole self-help industry. I think it's a plague because they raise expectations so high by saying that if you buy this self help book you're going to become much thinner, more beautiful, smarter. So you read a book and try it out and then if you don't quite succeed you feel worse than before then you go out and buy more self-help books.

You were a writer for Saturday Night Live (and this is where I realize that I want to be E. Jean.) Which was harder, comedy writing or journalism?
Comedy writing. It's the most serious business there is. It's angst-producing, ego-deflating. To be funny is very, very hard.

Right now journalism is on an upsurge because of Woodward's book (I love it that he's struck another blow for great journalism. I love that. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.) I love how important he is, how important his book is, how again journalism is making a difference.

Comedy is important because it takes our minds off George.

Did you have any training in comedy writing?
I had no training. You cannot be trained in comedy writing. You can have a knack, a natural timing…you're either born with it or you're not. You can become better; a course can make you sharper. Jay Leno on "Inside the Actor's Studio" said that he doesn't think you can learn to be write comedy, but you can learn to be better at it. You can learn what works and what doesn't. You can learn the way I did what Lorne Michaels liked and didn't like. I didn't get much on the air. He didn't think it was funny. Now that Tina Fey's head writer, if I were there now I'd get more on the air. It just depends on who's in charge.

You grew up in the Midwest. Has this affected your personality or writing style at all?
Growing up in Indiana particularly did because Indiana's a very backward, racist, small-minded state. And that's an excellent birthing ground for a writer. Anything that gives you confines is good for a writer because it gives you a barricade that you want to push against. Being in the heart of the country is not a bad way to begin.

You live in New York now, right?
I live outside New York, in a hovel in the mountains.

How many dogs and cats do you have?
I have four imbeciles, all of them rescued, all of them dingbats, and a cat. They're all just morons.

[Editor] Bill Tonelli says of you, "She's really nuts." Is she?
Tonelli's cool. He's actually the one who wrote the South Beach Diet. Never for an instant believe that anybody wrote what they say, except for Bob Woodward. People have to watch what they read because things are rarely as they appear. So Tonelli wrote the South Beach Diet, and yes, I am nuts.

You talk about wanting your interview subjects to misbehave. Have you had any that simply wouldn't let you get beneath the veneer?
Well the smart people always let you think you're getting beneath the veneer. Let me see…I will never know because I could think I'm getting beneath a veneer and I'm not. Um…so it's difficult to say. I'm going to say I guess I didn't get beneath Madonna's.

She never strikes me as having that much fun.
No, she's all business. That girl is smart, though. I didn't have enough time with her.

One of my favorite quotes is from William Goldman, saying about how whenever you see a celebrity behaving like a normal human being on a talk show, that's them acting like an everyday person.
That's true. Although did you ever see Quentin Tarantino go on Leno and get drunk? He was absolutely himself.

I saw him on American Idol. It seems like most other celebrity guest judges kiss everyone's butt but you can tell Tarantino is a fan of the show…he said the kind of things you'd say to the TV at home.
Yeah! Wasn't he great? He was at the finals last year. So I think Bill Goldman's right. And I used to date Bill Goldman. "Nobody knows anything" is a great quote.

You're a talented journalist as well as a former cheerleader and beauty queen. Do you think that the stereotype of smart and funny women writer as dowdy, bitter people is still perpetuated?
I'm not a smart person. I am an imbecile, I swear to god, I don't have a brain in my head. What I have is an eccentric view. I am not smart. Everyone I know is much smarter than me. Everytime I pick up a Harper's or New Yorker I sit there in awe that anybody can write that well. I'm stunned that anybody can write. Writing is really hard. I can't do it. It kills me. I have no talent but I recognize that I have a point a view so that's what I write about. I can't write.

But you do write the pieces, right? Or do you just do interviews and transcribe them?
I do write the pieces. And it kills me!

We are conducting this interview over the phone because you said that you hate writing. Why is that?
I couldn't email back and forth because I'd have to sit there and think about every answer and it'd just be too much because writing is hard. I just got off the phone with Elle and they said "You've got to do Meryl Streep for us" I said "I CAN'T DO MERYL STREEP" and they say we need you, because Meryl Streep and I actually did a scene in Manchurian Candidate. And that was fun. So they were like, "You know Meryl," and I don't know Meryl. We spent a half hour together. So I finally said that I'd do it, if I could just do a Q&A, have a conversation. Because I don't want to write the piece, it's too hard!

Do you ever get stuck while writing an article? What do you do when your editor asks for revisions and you don't know where to (re)start? Or does this never happen to you?
Actually, no editor except one has asked me to totally revise something and when that happened I just pulled the piece. It was a mistake and I've always regretted it. It was for Spin and I went through basic training with the privates and it was about the drill sergeant and they had another view of it than I did. They were right. But I pulled the piece because I was in a huff. I should have done it, but I was wrong.

What exactly is gonzo journalism and have you practiced it?
Gonzo was created by Hunter Thompson and only he can really do it, because Hunter is a god. It's wild, free-wheeling high-spirited, have to be a genius to pull it off, second by second. The journalist is the center of the piece and the story swirls around you. That's gonzo. The journalist puts himself at the white hot center.

I did a biography of Hunter and I used his form and it worked for that book.

You wrote a biography about Hunter S. Thompson and lived with him for a short time. Did he influence your writing at all?
Luckily, I didn't read him until I was like 38 years old because had I read him when I was younger I would have been doomed. He influences probably more young college kids than Hemingway.

Who did a better job of portraying him in the movies, Bill Murray or Johnny Depp?
Bill Murray. He got him down. Totally. Totally is Hunter, or as close to Hunter as you can get.

You've been described as 'divaesque.' Is the term 'diva' a regular or backhanded compliment to you?
It depends on who says it. It really just means that the writer is too lazy to come up with another phrase. Anybody who uses a cliché like that is too lazy to come up with an actual, real description of a living breathing human being. Although I'm totally into that because I love a cliché myself.

I personally avoid them like the plague.
That's good, Claire.

I have some wonderful, single male friends. Are there any reasons why I shouldn't sign them up for Great Boyfriends.com? Can you think of any reason why they might object?
It's all about who recommends them. You would be great at recommending them. You can put your picture in and you'd be adorable and you'd write a very witty recommendation and your guys would go like hotcakes. They'd be on there for 24 hours and then they'd disappear.

Would the guy object? I don't think so

So the service works well?
Yes. It's gone very smoothly.

This is a trite question...
I like trite.

...but you seem so upbeat: What are your pet peeves?
I hate boring people.

I hate George Bush. I hate Republicans. I hate Donald Rumsfeld. I hate Dick Cheney. I hate the administration. I hate that the world is never going to be the same again, thanks to George Bush. Boy, you got me started now. I hate how materialistic we are. I hate that we just keep buying stuff and then we have to work harder to buy it which makes our lives STUPID. I want us all to just go see a movie and knock it off. That's it.

Mainly I hate boring people.

Speaking of materialism, are Manolo Blahniks really that great? Or are they just snobjects?
" SNOBJECTS!" I LOVE IT! YOU ARE THE COOLEST! I LOVE IT!

I can't take credit for it-I read it in a New York Times piece about Birkin bags.
Did you see that Li'l Kim showed up with a Birkin bag at court? Manolos are collector's items. You'd never use them if you have walk anywhere, just if you have to get out of the taxi, stand somewhere, and then go back to the taxi, get home and take them off. They are extremely beautiful objects and they do make a woman's legs look extraordinary. I don't care if your legs look like umbrella holders. Put on a pair of Manolos and there's something magical. You only need one pair. And they're also great knockoffs, you don't even need a pair.

What was the greatest part of playing Reporter #5 in the upcoming Manchurian Candidate?
How did you hear about that?

IMDB
What? What did you look me up on? The thing that I'm on all the time and I've never looked. That a complete nobody like me and you can find me on IMDB. These things are amazing.

The creepiest thing I've ever been through in my life, because I'm talking to Meryl Streep and she's the funniest, most comical, hilarious person, so bright, so clever, so hysterical. We're talking, we're talking. Jonathan Demme says "action." In front of my very eyes she became evil incarnate and I don't know how she did it because she physically did not change. Every particle in her body became evil and that's what a great actress does and I was so stunned I could hardly walk. Isn't that amazing? That freaked me out.

Who are some of your favorite women either in the public eye or your private life?
I love Oprah. I like Hillary. I didn't used to but now I did. I hope they give her the VP spot. Um, let's see. I love Jennifer Hudson on "American Idol." [editor's note: this interview was conducted BT, i.e. Before the Travesty where Jennifer was eliminated Wednesday night.]

She's from Chicago!
I love her. I LOVE JENNIFER HUDSON!

Yes. I'll go with those three.

What are some of your favorite pet names?
Kumquat. And motherfucker is also a favorite.

How does it feel to be the 93rd person interviewed for Zulkey.com?
It's the high point of my day. And let me tell you. That's a gift and I'll you way. I have today. That's all I've got today. It's the only thing I have. I don't have tomorrow. And yesterday is gone. All I've got is today. And since you're the high point of it, and that's a big deal.